My g3 grandfather was Karl Philipp Goetz, born 3 Aug 1819 in Kirchheimbolanden and baptized in the Evangelical Church there on 4 Aug 1819. You have asked for more detail. What I know from family stories is that Karl's mother, Dorothea Goetz, was a servant in the house of the "Princes Architect", and that she became pregnant there.

I am trying to find out specifically who the "prince's architect" might have been in late 1818. This individual would have been living in Kirchheimbolanden. I noticed that you have recently been to an archive in Kirchheimbolanden and noted that there were records back to the 1790s. I would like to write these folks, or any local genealogical club you know of, to see if I can get some help in this matter. Any addresses or contacts would help! Thanks!

  • 1
    I voted this question down, because it provides little context for us to help and maybe it was copied here from some communication with someone else without modification. What sources have you studied, where is the prince’s architect mentioned?
    – lejonet
    Aug 22, 2013 at 15:26
  • Bill, Welcome to Geneagy & Family History.SE, and thanks for the question. As others have noted, you haven't provided much in the way of context or detail for use to work on. A little bit about what you already know (and how you know it) would go a long way to help us provide you with as much help as we can.
    – user104
    Aug 22, 2013 at 15:30
  • @lejonet8: The "prince" probably means Frederick William, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg or his son and heir Wilhelm, Duke of Nassau, Prince of Nassau-Weilburg. No idea who this "prince's architect" could be though. Not Heinrich Siesmayer in any case, that's a few decades later. Aug 22, 2013 at 15:37
  • @MartinSojka Why Frederick William or Wilhelm? Please have a look at my guesswork below.
    – lejonet
    Aug 22, 2013 at 15:55
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    Side note: In Bavaria at this time, not everyone was allowed to marry. This led to up to 25% of children being born out of wedlock near the middle of the 19th century - to parents who very much would like to marry, but were not legally allowed to (that was usually the case due to the economic situation of the male). These restrictions were only finally removed in 1916 (1871 for most of the rest of Germany, 1921 for Austria). Consequently, Karl's father was most likely someone who very likely planned to marry his mother, but was too poor to do so. Aug 22, 2013 at 19:10

2 Answers 2


The people who can give you the most detailed answers is likely to be the local historical museum staff; you should be able to contact them in English and German.

Heimatmuseum Kirchheimbolanden e.V.
Amtsstraße 14
67292 Kirchheimbolanden
Phone: +49 6352 401850

There are some church books archived at other places, if you want to look for them. You'll most likely have to visit the organisations to be able to look into those archives.

In Germany

  • The Landesarchiv Speyer has the catholic church books from roughly 1686 to 1798 (signature: F 6 Nr. 125 and F 6 Nr. 126), lutheran church books from roughly 1707 to 1798 (signature: F 6 Nr. 127, F 6 Nr. 128 and F 6 Nr. 129) and reformed church books from roughly 1738 to 1798 (signature: F 6 Nr. 130 and F 6 Nr. 131) as both originals and on microfiche. They also have a chronological register (not sure what this entails in detail) for the time from 1686 to 1800 under the signatures A 197/116 and 131; this includes information about the Jewish community.

  • The Zentralarchiv der Evangelischen Kirche der Pfalz in Speyer has gathered the so-called "Bürgerbuch" with confirmations from 1747 to 1837 (signature: 506).

Similar archives book locations and signatures from the Rheinland-Pfalz and Saarland area can be located by looking up in the official "Kirchenbuchverzeichnis" of the Landeshauptarchiv Rheinland-Pfalz.



The Genealogical Society of Utah has - unsurprisingly, they're very good at it - copies of some of the church books. The batch numbers are:

  • Evangelic

    • Christenings (male only) 1738-1798: J97078-7
    • Marriages 1709-1770: M97078-5
    • Christenings (male only), 1707-1770: J97078-5
    • Marriages 1818-1839: M97078-2
    • Christenings 1771-1798: C97078-6
    • Christenings (female only) 1738-1798: K97078-7
    • Marriages 1738-1798: M97078-7
    • Christenings 1689-1708, 1760-1764, 1798-1839: C97078-1
    • Christenings (female only) 1818-1839: K97078-2
    • Marriages 1771-1798: M97078-6
    • Christenings (female only) 1707-1770: K97078-5
    • Christenings 1872-1875: C97078-4
    • Christenings (male only) 1818-1839: J97078-2
    • Marriages 1692-1708, 1762-1763, 1798-1839: M97078-1
    • Marriages 1869-1881: M97078-4
  • Catholic

    • Christenings (female only) 1686-1798: K97077-1
    • Christenings (male only) 1686-1798: J97077-1
    • Marriages 1824-1885: M97077-3
    • Marriages 1686-1798: M97077-1
    • Christenings 1824-1885: C97077-2

You can use those to look up the records on the FamilySearch web page. I assume this is your ancestor in those data bases:

Karl Philipp Goetz (christened 04 AUG 1819)


You'll likely have to learn to at least read German to be able to gather much important information, but most Germans understand English and can somewhat communicate in it, especially the younger generation. Consequently, you could try looking through the following web sites and communicating with their communities (which have a big overlap, naturally):

  • Why Karl Philipp Goetz?
    – lejonet
    Aug 22, 2013 at 15:59
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    @lejonet8: That's the name Bill asked about in his question on the ancestry.com forums half a year ago. Aug 22, 2013 at 16:00
  • Martin and Lejonet8, You have it right. My g3 grandfather was Karl Philipp Goetz, born 3 Aug 1819 in Kirchheimbolanden and baptized in the Evangelical Church there on 4 Aug 1819. You have asked for more detail. What I know from family stories is that Karl's mother, Dorothea Goetz, was a servant in the house of the "Princes Architect", and that she became pregnant there. So, it is likely that whoever the "princes architect" is, is also my g4 times grandfather. This is why I am interested in solving this question. Karl Philipp Goetz remained in Kirchheimbolanden until 1848 and the revolt. Aug 22, 2013 at 16:55
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    @BillBrankowitz I don’t consider this to be likely. It is possible, but you have to consider other possible fathers in this household and elsewhere (and it his highly unlikely to solve this with certainty.) What I know from my own family: People tend to attribute fatherhood to the most notable person that comes into question.
    – lejonet
    Aug 22, 2013 at 18:24
  • @BillBrankowitz: Given the facts known so far, Karl Philipp's most likely father was an adult male in that household named "Philipp" (or similar), and his mother's father (or possibly an uncle, brother or grandfather, but it usually was the father) was very likely named "Karl". I wouldn't assume more than that, and even those assumptions are of rather low quality. Aug 22, 2013 at 18:34

I am not too happy with your question because it lacks a little context and maybe it was copied here from some other communication (“ I noticed that you have recently been to an archive ...”)

Although your question focus on local contacts, I’ll do some guessing on the prince’s architect:

So you are looking for Kirchheimbolanden. This town belonged to the Kingdom of Bavaria after 1816. The Bavarian prince in 1818 was Ludwig, later Ludwig I of Bavaria. His architect was Leo von Klenze (Hubert Glaser: Der König und sein Architekt, see also König Ludwig I. von Bayern und Leo von Klenze. Der Briefwechsel. Teil I: Kronprinzenzeit König Ludwigs I. (Quellen zur Neueren Geschichte Bayerns V, Bd. 1–3). Hrsg. von Hubert Glaser, Kommission für bayerische Landesgeschichte, München 2004, ISBN 376969708). The palace of Kirchheimbolanden belonged to Klenze from 1839 to 1841.

I have no idea if this is what you are looking for, maybe it helps. Please provide us more context.

  • This is very helpful. Do you know if Leo von Klenze lived in Kirchheimbolanden? Aug 22, 2013 at 17:00
  • @BillBrankowitz The German Wikipedia article indicates that he had no permanent residence in this castle during the period of his ownership. There is a lot of literature available on von Klenze to investigate his career. What we know: he was the architect of someone who was a prince and later the sovereign of this part of Germany and he owned a castle in the town for a short period of time.
    – lejonet
    Aug 22, 2013 at 18:16

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